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  • Author
    Thread #1406
    • GM Nerd
    • Position: GOD
    • Posts: 28
    • 12.02.19 03:38:13
    • Edited by GM Nerd
    • on 12.02.19 03:39:07

    Knight Vocation Feedback


    Hey there,

    Recently getting a lot of complaints about knight vocation, really wanna hear your feedback.

    We already buffed knight considerably compared to stock 7.4 by buffing melee attacks over 20%, adding bunch of high attack weapons, adding swiftness rings to catch up to mages and added the exori ira spell.

    If you guys still feel EK is underpowered severely we can adjust the vocation in several ways, really looking forward to hear feedback from the community.

    Thanks!


    • Snake
    • Vocation: Elder Druid
    • Level: 93
    • Imperator of Silent Core
    • Posts: 1
    • 12.02.19 03:41:24

    Knights from level 40-100 are under powered after that its getting ok


    • Don Tone
    • Vocation: Elite Knight
    • Level: 138
    • Leader of New Orden
    • Posts: 1
    • 12.02.19 03:47:29

    >> Originally posted by GM Nerd on 12.02.19 03:38:13:
    >> Hey there,
    >>
    >> Recently getting a lot of complaints about knight vocation, really wanna hear your feedback.
    >>
    >> We already buffed knight considerably compared to stock 7.4 by buffing melee attacks over 20%, adding bunch of high attack weapons, adding swiftness rings to catch up to mages and added the exori ira spell.
    >>
    >> If you guys still feel EK is underpowered severely we can adjust the vocation in several ways, really looking forward to hear feedback from the community.
    >>
    >> Thanks!









    the truth I feel that I hit very little with the swords being high lvl and all you can not go up level you just need to be accompanied by magicians by the sds when you are playing you just have to go to very normal hunts I would like to paste a little more and be able to climb alone and do task alone


    • Wowzera
    • Vocation: Elder Druid
    • Level: 33
    • Posts: 1
    • 12.02.19 04:35:03
    • Edited by Wowzera
    • on 12.02.19 05:30:49

    I feel like Exori Ira misses it's mark as a spell. Fundamentally you use a spell because you want a consistent result. Spending 60 mana, getting exhausted and the spell achieves 0 damage is a bad design. Imagine if UE, Waves, SD's had a RNG chance to them doing a misfire and dealing 0 damage. At higher level as a knight it's basically useless in pve because of it's unreliability 100% rather shoot a explo rune. Little to no use in pvp.

    The accelerated rate of regeneration and rune charges benefits caster classes immensely compared to knights, what are knights gonna do with all their extra mana? Use haste? Great. Philosophy in 7.4 was that knights can grind at a slower pace and go profit hunting meanwhile mages had to often make a lot of their own supplies to risk not lose a lot of money hunting so comparing the XP/h it usually evened out with a mages downtime. Here though the only downtime a mage/paladin have is trying to find someone sell them runes since with the increased loot rate it's very hard to lose gold hunting. So again knights draw the short stick. How is the tortoise gonna compete against the hare that never needs to rest?

    Overall I can feel knights place in PvP is okayish, they shouldn't be some bulldozer who can cut through a mages mana shield in no time but they could use with some ability to provide support like shooting a mwall since getting m lvl 8 is unrealistic with the lifespan of the server but in PvE they can't hold their own, especially the higher they go. What I think a lot of knights feel is that they are getting locked out of doing things on their own, they can't hunt a lot of things because their damage output is to low to justify hunting other things than dragon lords simply because the xp/h becomes even way shittier, too many mobs have way too high defense. They shouldn't be dependent on other classes to kill high tier monsters. Casters damage scales way too much compared to a knights source of damage, SD's wasn't meant to be spammed 24/7 without incurring heavy losses for the casters but with the changes on rates etc makes this a viable strategy which ultimately again makes knights draw the short stick.

    They need considerable damage buff in PvE without the ability to use that damage in PvP to gain independence and equal footing when it comes to the ability to do content.


    • Aqua
    • Vocation: Elite Knight
    • Level: 146
    • Posts: 2
    • 12.02.19 13:51:57

    The "RNG" part of the exori ira spell, is pretty sad. Sometimes i hit for 400-500 and sometimes i hit for 10-30. Its nothing compared to all the other vocs, that have the ability to use SDs and or Spells to do consistent dmg.

    Nice server tho


    • Hilda
    • Vocation: Divine Royal Paladin
    • Level: 123
    • Colonel of Immortals
    • Posts: 4
    • 12.02.19 16:28:22

    I feel knights are struglin at early levels but at higher the can certainly level pretty well with explosions and exori spell spamming. Maybe making the low end dmg of exori ira could be increased so it doesnt vary as much.


    • Jr
    • Vocation: Elite Knight
    • Level: 98
    • Posts: 10
    • 12.02.19 16:33:45
    • Edited by Jr
    • on 12.02.19 16:33:57

    Hey,

    What do you think about changing EXORI for a main knight ability?

    I mean maybe you could change the cost of exori to for example 30-50 mana (for sure not more).

    Why such low cost? Mana fluids give an average 50 mana every use so this cost in my opinion is enough.

    Right now exori takes so much mana and its not worth to use it. Exori ira is rly cool spell but the hit chance with high damage is to low.

    In this case the knight will be able to kill the stronger monsters without any problems.
    I would like to remind that the exori is still spell only in melee range, so there will be no problem in PVP, that knight is chasing mages and spamming exori on them.

    This change would not change the gameplay of other classes, it will just allow knights to play normally like other classes.

    NO, knights are not hitting 1k with exori like mages do. Approx. dmg at lvl 100 is 300-350 hit.

    Greetings, Jr.


    • Gluten Free
    • Vocation: Knight
    • Level: 8
    • Posts: 3
    • 12.02.19 19:29:52

    Knights are fine they hit like a truck.


    • Caradepautv
    • Vocation: Divine Elite Knight
    • Level: 138
    • Posts: 1
    • 12.02.19 22:04:01

    >> Originally posted by Jr on 12.02.19 16:33:45:
    >> Hey,
    >>
    >> What do you think about changing EXORI for a main knight ability?
    >>
    >> I mean maybe you could change the cost of exori to for example 30-50 mana (for sure not more).
    >>
    >> Why such low cost? Mana fluids give an average 50 mana every use so this cost in my opinion is enough.
    >>
    >> Right now exori takes so much mana and its not worth to use it. Exori ira is rly cool spell but the hit chance with high damage is to low.
    >>
    >> In this case the knight will be able to kill the stronger monsters without any problems.
    >> I would like to remind that the exori is still spell only in melee range, so there will be no problem in PVP, that knight is chasing mages and spamming exori on them.
    >>
    >> This change would not change the gameplay of other classes, it will just allow knights to play normally like other classes.
    >>
    >> NO, knights are not hitting 1k with exori like mages do. Approx. dmg at lvl 100 is 300-350 hit.
    >>
    >> Greetings, Jr.



    My exori hit 470 on monsters.. will be insane to hunt with just 30 - 50 mana per exori.. its impossible bro, not balanced.. i have 660 mana.. i will spam exori on monster all the time.


    • Bubba Kush
    • Vocation: Elite Knight
    • Level: 74
    • Posts: 1
    • 12.02.19 22:15:23

    With the exori ira having a chance to not hit and having such inconsistency with damage, it really doesn't seem viable to use that spell instead of exori or explosions. If it was a guaranteed hit and having a smaller gap between min & max damage, it would be a way better spell.


    • Ube
    • Vocation: Elite Knight
    • Level: 85
    • Posts: 3
    • 13.02.19 12:09:06

    >> Originally posted by Caradepautv on 12.02.19 22:04:01:
    >> >> Originally posted by Jr on 12.02.19 16:33:45:
    >> >> Hey,
    >> >>
    >> >> What do you think about changing EXORI for a main knight ability?
    >> >>
    >> >> I mean maybe you could change the cost of exori to for example 30-50 mana (for sure not more).
    >> >>
    >> >> Why such low cost? Mana fluids give an average 50 mana every use so this cost in my opinion is enough.
    >> >>
    >> >> Right now exori takes so much mana and its not worth to use it. Exori ira is rly cool spell but the hit chance with high damage is to low.
    >> >>
    >> >> In this case the knight will be able to kill the stronger monsters without any problems.
    >> >> I would like to remind that the exori is still spell only in melee range, so there will be no problem in PVP, that knight is chasing mages and spamming exori on them.
    >> >>
    >> >> This change would not change the gameplay of other classes, it will just allow knights to play normally like other classes.
    >> >>
    >> >> NO, knights are not hitting 1k with exori like mages do. Approx. dmg at lvl 100 is 300-350 hit.
    >> >>
    >> >> Greetings, Jr.

    >>
    >>
    >> My exori hit 470 on monsters.. will be insane to hunt with just 30 - 50 mana per exori.. its impossible bro, not balanced.. i have 660 mana.. i will spam exori on monster all the time.


    I agree with Jr, setting the exori cost to 50 or even 30 will destroy the balance even more between vocations. On the otherhand, as a mid-level Knight i agree that i struggle a bit with my hits. I think adjusting the exori ira spell to having a decent hit range (100-250) will help out the mid-level knights alot. Or atleast not having spend 60 mana > 1 MF on a hit doing 21 damage, or even 0 damage. Especially on the mid-level this can make your hunt very expensive. And YES, Knight can hunt with just melee but its about the balance between vocations and when you buff the regen speed, make it legal to MC on two accounts and thus buff runemakers even more you need to give the Knights some buff aswell.

    Just my thoughts and opinion, happy to hear others.

    Kind regards,

    Ube


    • Jr
    • Vocation: Elite Knight
    • Level: 98
    • Posts: 10
    • 13.02.19 16:39:43

    Knights just need to receive a SPAM spell to exp or a rune with CONSTANT damage.

    Maybe an EXORI MIN with very low cost with average dmg would be nice.

    Waiting for more comments with your opinions!

    Greetings, Jr.


    • GM Nerd
    • Position: GOD
    • Posts: 28
    • 13.02.19 23:31:13

    What about changing exori to *1.5 lvl instead of *2 mana cost?


    • Hilda
    • Vocation: Divine Royal Paladin
    • Level: 123
    • Colonel of Immortals
    • Posts: 4
    • 14.02.19 07:26:37

    >> Originally posted by GM Nerd on 13.02.19 23:31:13:
    >> What about changing exori to *1.5 lvl instead of *2 mana cost?

    Could work but exori ira needa a lower damage variety aswell


    • Jr
    • Vocation: Elite Knight
    • Level: 98
    • Posts: 10
    • 14.02.19 10:55:39

    >> Originally posted by GM Nerd on 13.02.19 23:31:13:
    >> What about changing exori to *1.5 lvl instead of *2 mana cost?

    It will change nothing, knight will be same shit as he is now.

    If you want to change exori cost it has to be 100 mana, for sure not more to feel that usefull.

    You should add as ive said above a "spam spell" for knight.
    For example "EXORI MIN" with much lower cost than 100 mana as it should be for EXORI and dmg like 40% of EXORI.

    Exori ira dmg must be corrected, most of the hits are just misses or below 50,

    Greetings, Jr.


    • Disunite
    • Vocation: Divine Elite Knight
    • Level: 195
    • Posts: 3
    • 14.02.19 21:29:45

    >> Originally posted by Wowzera on 12.02.19 04:35:03:
    >> I feel like Exori Ira misses it's mark as a spell. Fundamentally you use a spell because you want a consistent result. Spending 60 mana, getting exhausted and the spell achieves 0 damage is a bad design. Imagine if UE, Waves, SD's had a RNG chance to them doing a misfire and dealing 0 damage. At higher level as a knight it's basically useless in pve because of it's unreliability 100% rather shoot a explo rune. Little to no use in pvp.
    >>
    >> The accelerated rate of regeneration and rune charges benefits caster classes immensely compared to knights, what are knights gonna do with all their extra mana? Use haste? Great. Philosophy in 7.4 was that knights can grind at a slower pace and go profit hunting meanwhile mages had to often make a lot of their own supplies to risk not lose a lot of money hunting so comparing the XP/h it usually evened out with a mages downtime. Here though the only downtime a mage/paladin have is trying to find someone sell them runes since with the increased loot rate it's very hard to lose gold hunting. So again knights draw the short stick. How is the tortoise gonna compete against the hare that never needs to rest?
    >>
    >> Overall I can feel knights place in PvP is okayish, they shouldn't be some bulldozer who can cut through a mages mana shield in no time but they could use with some ability to provide support like shooting a mwall since getting m lvl 8 is unrealistic with the lifespan of the server but in PvE they can't hold their own, especially the higher they go. What I think a lot of knights feel is that they are getting locked out of doing things on their own, they can't hunt a lot of things because their damage output is to low to justify hunting other things than dragon lords simply because the xp/h becomes even way shittier, too many mobs have way too high defense. They shouldn't be dependent on other classes to kill high tier monsters. Casters damage scales way too much compared to a knights source of damage, SD's wasn't meant to be spammed 24/7 without incurring heavy losses for the casters but with the changes on rates etc makes this a viable strategy which ultimately again makes knights draw the short stick.
    >>
    >> They need considerable damage buff in PvE without the ability to use that damage in PvP to gain independence and equal footing when it comes to the ability to do content.



    I agree with everything written above and have felt exactly what he's talking about while playing.

    Reducing exori mana cost to 30-50 (as someone suggested) is kind of ridiculous, tho exori could use some tweaks imo. The mana cost scales to much with lvl/maxmana and when you're at high lvl you reeaally need to chug those pots to get exori's off. Capping the manacost somewhere might be a good idea. And it feels like exori only scale with lvl and mlvl (or what?). The meleeskill seems to make no difference so why bother training. Training seems redundant or weak (meleeskill seems to effect exori ira tho).

    For exori ira I definatley feel the low end dmg needs to be scaled up. It feels really shitty spamming ~600 mana singletarget and if you'r unlucky you're only tickling the mob.

    When buffing knight we should be careful not to make them to strong on all fronts. Since they are still by far the most tanky class.
    I suggest more focus on their singletargetdmg than aoedmg since exori+manapots still does work even if it's expensive. If you buff their singletarget dmg somehow, either by spells or other means it would also make them somewhat more useful in pvp.

    And now for the big elephant in the room. While playing custom content on this server (pretty new to classicus) I cant help but feel there isn't much gear for knights dmgwise (sure the ~36atk weapons that may be good lowlvl)?
    Paladins have +dist armor etc, sorcs/druids have INSANE ~+15mlvl in max gear. What do knights have? melee-ring? and you probably want to use the speedring instead, atleast for pvp. (you dont notice the dmg from higher skill anyway)

    AND where is any info/guides on quests or even how to get to the new content? Maybe this is intended but as a new player, if you dont know someone who knows someone you will be WAY behind pople knowing about the new areas and i feel that's a shame. Those people are missing out. Maybe this is intented tho.

    Sry for the wall of text. Trying to be constructive. Really like the server and the custom content.
    Keep it up!


    • Ube
    • Vocation: Elite Knight
    • Level: 85
    • Posts: 3
    • 15.02.19 08:53:46

    >> Originally posted by Disunite on 14.02.19 21:29:45:
    >> >> Originally posted by Wowzera on 12.02.19 04:35:03:
    >> >> I feel like Exori Ira misses it's mark as a spell. Fundamentally you use a spell because you want a consistent result. Spending 60 mana, getting exhausted and the spell achieves 0 damage is a bad design. Imagine if UE, Waves, SD's had a RNG chance to them doing a misfire and dealing 0 damage. At higher level as a knight it's basically useless in pve because of it's unreliability 100% rather shoot a explo rune. Little to no use in pvp.
    >> >>
    >> >> The accelerated rate of regeneration and rune charges benefits caster classes immensely compared to knights, what are knights gonna do with all their extra mana? Use haste? Great. Philosophy in 7.4 was that knights can grind at a slower pace and go profit hunting meanwhile mages had to often make a lot of their own supplies to risk not lose a lot of money hunting so comparing the XP/h it usually evened out with a mages downtime. Here though the only downtime a mage/paladin have is trying to find someone sell them runes since with the increased loot rate it's very hard to lose gold hunting. So again knights draw the short stick. How is the tortoise gonna compete against the hare that never needs to rest?
    >> >>
    >> >> Overall I can feel knights place in PvP is okayish, they shouldn't be some bulldozer who can cut through a mages mana shield in no time but they could use with some ability to provide support like shooting a mwall since getting m lvl 8 is unrealistic with the lifespan of the server but in PvE they can't hold their own, especially the higher they go. What I think a lot of knights feel is that they are getting locked out of doing things on their own, they can't hunt a lot of things because their damage output is to low to justify hunting other things than dragon lords simply because the xp/h becomes even way shittier, too many mobs have way too high defense. They shouldn't be dependent on other classes to kill high tier monsters. Casters damage scales way too much compared to a knights source of damage, SD's wasn't meant to be spammed 24/7 without incurring heavy losses for the casters but with the changes on rates etc makes this a viable strategy which ultimately again makes knights draw the short stick.
    >> >>
    >> >> They need considerable damage buff in PvE without the ability to use that damage in PvP to gain independence and equal footing when it comes to the ability to do content.

    >>
    >>
    >> I agree with everything written above and have felt exactly what he's talking about while playing.
    >>
    >> Reducing exori mana cost to 30-50 (as someone suggested) is kind of ridiculous, tho exori could use some tweaks imo. The mana cost scales to much with lvl/maxmana and when you're at high lvl you reeaally need to chug those pots to get exori's off. Capping the manacost somewhere might be a good idea. And it feels like exori only scale with lvl and mlvl (or what?). The meleeskill seems to make no difference so why bother training. Training seems redundant or weak (meleeskill seems to effect exori ira tho).
    >>
    >> For exori ira I definatley feel the low end dmg needs to be scaled up. It feels really shitty spamming ~600 mana singletarget and if you'r unlucky you're only tickling the mob.
    >>
    >> When buffing knight we should be careful not to make them to strong on all fronts. Since they are still by far the most tanky class.
    >> I suggest more focus on their singletargetdmg than aoedmg since exori+manapots still does work even if it's expensive. If you buff their singletarget dmg somehow, either by spells or other means it would also make them somewhat more useful in pvp.
    >>
    >> And now for the big elephant in the room. While playing custom content on this server (pretty new to classicus) I cant help but feel there isn't much gear for knights dmgwise (sure the ~36atk weapons that may be good lowlvl)?
    >> Paladins have +dist armor etc, sorcs/druids have INSANE ~+15mlvl in max gear. What do knights have? melee-ring? and you probably want to use the speedring instead, atleast for pvp. (you dont notice the dmg from higher skill anyway)
    >>
    >> AND where is any info/guides on quests or even how to get to the new content? Maybe this is intended but as a new player, if you dont know someone who knows someone you will be WAY behind pople knowing about the new areas and i feel that's a shame. Those people are missing out. Maybe this is intented tho.
    >>
    >> Sry for the wall of text. Trying to be constructive. Really like the server and the custom content.
    >> Keep it up!



    I agree with all Disunite said in the post above.


  • My opinion only....


    I agree with everything the person said before, how the Paladins have their good set as Death Helmet +3 dist, the wizards with the whole set reach +15 ml is incredible, that only the Knights have nothing like that. ... Hercules set? HP + well but that at high levels I think it does not make much difference, and since I'm in it I do not think the Knight's have a good arsenal of weapons really if you're something tall like 70+ if you use a sword, you'll use Giant Sword do not? and if it is ax Dragon Lance would be the two would be both hands to use their defense defense will be somewhat open and receive more damage (I say from experience, although of course I have very bad skills xD) well that was all ....


    A Great Greeting, Astral Disaster.


    • Shadow Nz
    • Vocation: Master Sorcerer
    • Level: 87
    • Posts: 1
    • 16.02.19 01:01:14

    Wow... Interesting


    I already thought EKs were OP.

    1 UH and full HP.

    For a mage, you have to use mana fluids, and with a EK atking you hitting over 100s PVP
    its ridiculous, as mana fluids only heal 40-60 mana per time. get 2 EKS on you with exoris and exori ira its game over. You cant even fight back 3x SD vs 1 UH? o.0 or UE 20x Mana fluids vs 1 UH

    If any chances need to be done, Just increase mana fluid intake amount to maybe 100,

    Druid + EK has always been the combo for old tibia
    EKs are designs to be team players with exeta res and with high HP

    whats the point playing any other vocation if EKs can solo all monsters with high atk damage.

    Soon EKS gonna be like real tibia here in classicus.



    Any bluffs going towards Eks, im changing vocations


    • Shuyken
    • Vocation: Elite Knight
    • Level: 37
    • Posts: 1
    • 16.02.19 09:16:33

    A small change I would like to see is Exeta res costing less mana, some monsters change target a lot and when there are multiple monsters I find myself unable to taunt them all as a low level knight